Do these play nice together?
#1 18-08-2015 
I asked this at MTS since both creators have moved on, and I received two answers: 1) Good question -- experiment! and 2) Check over at Leefish and see if they know. So, I'm trying option 2 before plunging into option 1.

Does Jenflower's HomeworkSometimesFasterFun play nicely with Inge Jones's Skills From Homework? Do you need to do anything special to make them work together?

If nobody here knows the answer from personal experience, how would I experiment to get a real answer? What scenarios should I test? What would errors look like? How often could I expect to see errors, so that if I DON'T see them then I can be reasonably sure they're cool together rather than a ticking time bomb?

I'm quite sure that the HCDU wil find a conflict, since Inge Jones said that it would find one with TwoJeff's version of HomeworkSometimes (based on Jenflower's), and she gave instructions for how to make those hacks play nice. However, I like the "faster fun" aspect on Jenflower's mod, which I'm pretty sure TwoJeffs's version doesn't have. Soooo.. Advice? Experience? Pointers?
esmeiolanthe, proud to be a member of LeeFish since Jul 2013.

#2 18-08-2015 
Being 'sure that HCDU will find a conflict' is actually just speculation based on hear-say. TwoJeffs' mod may be based on Jenflower's, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the conflict of his mod was also inherited from Jenflower's mod. So even though there is a conflict between Inge's mod and TJ's that doesn't mean there *has* to be a conflict between Inge's and Jenflower's as well.

What I'm trying to say is this: I don't know whether these mods play nice together. And if nobody else here on the board knows, I would suggest that you *start* by finding out more first, using the scientific method. Get both mods, run HCDU to know *for sure* whether there is a conflict, then tell us what you find. And even if HCDU says there *is* a conflict, you could set up a test hood where you run these mods together. In fact, you could already start this project while waiting for responses on this thread Smile

#3 19-08-2015 
That might be a bit hard, @BoilingOil, since today is Tuesday and I only get paid to stay home and play video games on Fridays in August. Tongue If nobody has an easy answer off the top of their head, then I can certainly test and report back. But I was an art major, so I hope it's okay to run my testing design past you? /me does great big puppy-dog eyes

I'm thinking to install the two hacks and only those two in a new hood in a newly generated Sims 2 folder, then run the HCDU. If no conflict is found, install both in a clone of my current game and run it again to see if either conflicts with things I already have. Either way, play a household with kids (I'm thinking the Newsons) and look for evidence of problems, in both the vanilla hood and afterwards the cloned hood. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure what form that evidence would take. I'm thinking it might be: crashing, freezing, jump bugs, one mod or other not performing as advertised, or weird pie menu strings when attempting to do something homework related. There can be other symptoms too, though, right? What am I missing? And how long is long enough to be sure that problems won't manifest? One game day is probably too little, three generations is probably too much, but what's a happy medium?

#4 19-08-2015 
Hun, you're making it unnecessarily complicated. Just throw both mods in with everything you already have, and when you run HCDU, it will tell you exactly which parts of which mods are involved in each conflict. If there is a conflict between these two mods, you will immediately recognize it because they will both be mentioned. And if either conflicts with anything else, you will recognize that too. Anyway, when you have that report (hack-report.txt will be created in a sub-folder of your HCDU folder), you can zip it up and attach it, and I'm perfectly willing to look it over and see if any of the mentioned conflicts will cause a problem. How's that?

Problems could always occur, even if no direct conflicts are found, but that is a bit harder to discover. It would require extensive examination in SimPE of all mods involved.

#5 19-08-2015 
There, you see? That is exactly why I asked for feedback on my testing procedures! If there is an easy way to do things and a really super hard way to do things, I will ALWAYS pick the really super hard way, and I will think that I am picking the easy way. Sad

Thank you for offering to take a look at my HCDU log! That is very kind of you! Smile esmeiolanthe offers BoilingOil lots of cookies

I have run the HCDU and attached the log. It looks like there is a conflict between these two hacks (seventh item on the list), but I don't know if it's a bad conflict or not. (How do you tell, for my own edification?) There are lots on the list that I knew about and that should be solved by load order, and I seem to have managed to put doubles of some doors and arches into both my Doors folder and my arches folder, but I just see the one conflict with these two mods specifically, and it looks like it's only between those two mods, as I expected. (Am I reading it right? See my previous comment about always getting things wrong...)

Thank you again for your help! Smile

Attached File(s)
.zip (Size: 1.52 KB / Downloads: 652)

#6 19-08-2015 
Ok, I see that it's two doors/arches that you managed to copy. You can simply delete one of each and that will at least lower the number of conflicts by a significant number.

Now... the two mods in question... It is highly likely - though not certain - that this conflict will cause one of the mods not to work entirely as planned. The mod that loads last, will work fine. But it can also be that one of the mods includes the changes of the other, in which case it's just a load-order issue. If you provide me with links to these two, I'll check the relevant BHAV and advise.
(This post was last modified: 19-08-2015 07:10 AM by BoilingOil.)

#7 19-08-2015 
I'm glad that deleting the duplicate doors/arches is all the fix needed for those conflicts. Something is easy, for once. Smile

Jenflower's HomeworkSometimesFasterFun: There are ultiple options; I have the AL version.

Inge Jone's Skill While Homework: It's the last hack on the page. There are multiple options; I downloaded the BV-and-up version that is not modified to work with TwoJeff's hack.

Thank you for your help! Is there a way I can learn to look at these things myself and tell if/how they conflict? Can you point me towards a tutorial for how to learn? I feel bad asking you to actually rip things apart for me.

#8 20-08-2015 
Hi @esmeiolanthe, sorry for keeping you waiting. Your description of which of Inge's mods to get is less than clear, because NONE of the four versions there are modified to work with TJ's. If you want one of these to work with TJ's mod, you need to ALSO load the bridge-hack that Inge added at the end of the page.

I've compared Jenflower's mod with TJ's, though, and they are quite different. I cannot even guarantee that the bridge-hack would help to make Inge's mod work with Jenflower's.

The only three solutions that I can offer, are:
  • Use only Inge's mod, OR only Jenflower's mod.
  • Get TJ's mod AND Inge's bridge-hack, and use all three hacks together: TJ's mod, Inge's mod AND the bridge-hack.
  • The last option is one I don't expect to run well, but you could try it at your own risk: try Inge's and Jenflower's mods together, and see how the game plays with one loading last, or with the other loading last. Then decide which option you like best.

As said, I'm not very confident that the third option will give good results, but you could still try.

#9 21-08-2015 
@BoilingOil I'm sorry -- apparently I can't read. I thought the second pair of hacks was TwoJeffs-compatible, although upon a fourth reread, I see that the second pair just modifies the way skill point are acquired. Unless I'm reading that part wrong too. Sad

I thought that Jenflower's and TwoJeffs' mods would be very different, and that the bridge-hack wouldn't help with Inge Jones's hack and Jenflower's. I suppose even a stopped clock is right twice a day...

I'm thinking the first option is the safest and easiest. It's not like I need either hack for better health and wellness. I can try the third in a cloned Sims 2 folder when I have some free time, I suppose, but it seems pretty chancy.

Thank you very much for your help! You went to far more trouble than I was expecting, and I appreciate it! Big Grin

#10 21-08-2015 
You're welcome, @esmeiolanthe. It was no problem. When I offer to look into an issue, I consider it a matter of honor to do the best I can. Smile
Your appreciation is gladly recieved though Big Grin

Maybe, when I have more time, I might look into writing an alternative bridge-hack to make Inge's mods work with Jenflower's as well. Perhaps.


Sorry, that is a members only option