Request by proxy - Lick plate enabled
#1 27-01-2016 
Hi BO! I am posting this on behalf of Simonut, because she can't get Leefish to let her post. She PMed me asking me if I could enable the slob-based interaction lick plate. I tried allmenus on and directing my Sim to use it, but it falls out of queue. I didn't understand why, and since I don't understand all that's written I told Simonut I can't do it, and she then thought of you and wanted to see if you might be able to.

After talking with grinEvilly today, who told me it used to work but now doesn't, I've tracked down the problem to be that Freetime and up have an additional line at the start of the BHAV that calls semiglobal Can I use This?. It's nothing but stack object lines so I don't understand squat of what it's doing, but I tried adding back the pre-FT code and the interaction then works. It's not a hidden interaction, but it only appears for Sims with less than 300 in neatness. So rather than enabling it, I guess what's needed is fixing whatever it was that EA broke when adding that Semi.

The interaction is Interaction - Lick Clean - Test, with group 0x7F8834C8. It calls semiglobal Can I use This? on the first line, and has two arguments on that same line. The Can I Use This? has the same group.

The obvious solution would be to just revert to the pre-FT code, but I don't know that the semiglobal isn't doing something that should be done but going about it the wrong way, so I don't want to do that. As I first said, this is beyond me, but since Simonut can't post herself I thought I'd forward her request to you, along with what I found today.
gummilutt, proud to be a member of LeeFish since Jun 2013.

#2 27-01-2016 
I'm gonna have a look at the lick clean thing. I know that in my "Food Dish Autonomy" mod, I successfully changed the conditions for licking plates clean, so it must be possible. Most of the 'obvious' ideas that you propose, don't seem directly safe to me (although some of it *might* be innocent); the EAxoids are a bunch of fruity morons and they make a lot of mistakes, but I believe that what they did in this case was exactly the way it should be. Also, the "Can I use this?" BHAC is used by other tests in the same group. So if you change that, you may jeopardise the integrity of several other interactions. NOT GOOD!

That reminds me... if there is already another mod that modifies this behavior - like my "Food Dish Autonomy" mod, for instance - in your downloads folder, you will probably get a conflict if you add this mod as well. If my mod loads after yours, for example, yours will simply not have any effect. So give me some time, and I'll get back to you on this one.

EDIT: I think it should be very simple to get this to work. In the "Interaction - Lick Clean - TEST" BHAV, on line 0x0000, simply change the True target from 01 to 02, and that should make it work. This will simply bypass the Neatness test, so every sim can lick plates clean, autonomously or directed.

Also, in order to make sure this mod works, make sure that it loads AFTER my "Food Dish Autonomy" mod or any other mod that might change stuff in the FoodDish_Globals.

#3 27-01-2016 
The neatness test is not the problem, the BHAV on line 0x00 is the problem. They added that line in FT, and after FT the interaction stops working. You can select it, but it just falls out of queue. Same Sim with a mod that uses pre-FT code, will perform the interaction fine. I don't know what it is, but something in that BHAV or how it's set up in the lick clean test makes Sims unable to perform it. I agree with you that just removing it does not seem safe, but I don't have the understanding needed to figure out a solution because I don't understand what it or the lick clean is doing.

I've thrown in the towel on this. I don't know how to fix it, which is why Simonut wanted to ask you if you want to give it a try. Since it sounds like you already edited it for your food dish autonomy, perhaps you've already fixed it.

EDIT: I forgot Simonut does not have any EP beyond Seasons, so she does not have the broken version. I made her a version that lets you direct any Sim to lick clean, but only allows autonomy for Sims who fit the original neatness criteria.

It's still broken for anyone that has FT and up though. Up to you if you want to fix it for those people. The medical student in me cringes at the idea of licking plates clean and what kind of cultures you'd get off plates like that, but I bet some people miss it.
(This post was last modified: 27-01-2016 02:19 PM by gummilutt.)

#4 27-01-2016 
Hold on!!! The BHAV in line 0x00 is abolutely REQUIRED to make it work properly in games with BV or later installed. Without that line, it may work in older games, but newer games will break if you throw it away. So what you need to do, is make sure that older games skip that step! That's all.

It's really simple: you put in an extra test if the player has BV or later installed, and if so, the "Can I use this?" BHAV must be called. Otherwise, it is ignored. Let me try to figure out how that was done, then I'll get back to you.

#5 27-01-2016 
Sorry for the double-post.

I think it's easier in this case to just make two versions. One for games up to Seasons, which does not have the call to "Can I Use This?". And another one for all games with BV or later that does! There is a way to combine them into one, but that requires a special setup in your SimPE that I should figure out first.

#6 27-01-2016 
This is another instance when I feel like we're talking two different things, you're seeing the code and I'm seeing the in-game behavior. If you have FT or above, Sims can not lick plates because the interaction does not work. It's available, you can choose it in pie menu, but it will instantly fall out of queue and fail. You say the line is required, I'm not debating that, but it doesn't change the fact that the interaction does not work if you have FT or up. Since that line is the only difference between pre-FT and post-FT, it's definitely that BHAV that makes it no longer work.

But I get your reaction. When grinEvilly told me it used to work and I went to compare BG and M&G code, I first told him that it did not change. Then I realized I had simplified, and changed my answer to say yes, it did change a tiny bit, but there's no way that line is the problem because that should be there (because a test to see if you can use it makes sense). But for the sake of completion, I went and tested it, and found that without the BHAV, the interaction works. With the BHAV, it does not work.

I'm not trying to fix it. I don't care for the interaction myself, I think it's dumb. Simonut does not have FT or above, her highest is Season. I used the Season code that works and modified that for her. I'm just saying, since this request was already posted, the interaction is broken in later EPs and I think some people would appreciate it being un-broken. I can't fix it because I don't understand why it doesn't work, and I think it's dumb so I don't really want to have a fix for it myself. If you'd like to un-break it for those unnamed people, I found the problem, if you don't want to, then I suggest we forget about it and let those people figure it out themselves or make a request of their own Smile
(This post was last modified: 27-01-2016 08:14 PM by gummilutt.)

#7 27-01-2016 
I just wanted to clarify a couple things on this issue, since my name was mentioned. =)

Obviously, not ALL sims get the option in their pie menu, and normally, i dont really pay too much attention to my sims 'neatness' scores. I know I have 1 sim who I play regularly that gets the "lick clean" option, and when I send him to perform it, he walks over to the plate, then it drops out of queue. Thing is, this sim should NOT be getting the "lick clean" option. I checked him in SimPE and his Neatness is 6.0; Genetic Neatness 6.0... I wonder if the game runs the check and say that he's not eligible. That would seem to be the proper course of the check. But why is he getting the option in the pie menu? I'd think the check should be run BEFORE that, to determine whether the option should even appear.

I thought it was some kind of glitchiness in my game, and it's really not difficult to live with, but when @gummilutt mentioned it in chat, i thought 'oh wait! me too!' If it was just me, then tough luck on me.

I had talked to @fanseelamb about it last night, as well. She tested the "lick clean" option in her game and said the neat sims did not get the option, the sloppy sims performed it just fine. That was with ALL EPs/SPs installed. My game, I do not have M&G, Ikea or AL. Could it be possible that they broke it, then fixed it? @leefish suggested that the problem could very well have been broken in the 'cooking contest' coding from FT.

For the record, i don't have ANY food-modding content in my game, whatsoever.


( ♂ - btw)

#8 27-01-2016 
Well, if fanseelamb got it to work, s/he either has a mod that fixes it, or there's something in my tests and your game that makes it fall out of queue. It's not neatness in my tests, because I used a Sim with 0 neatness. I haven't checked the Can I Use This and compared between games, but the lick clean test is the same in M&G, AL and FT.

And sorry, I thought I read someone say she to you yesterday, but clearly I was getting you confused with someone else. I'll edit it Smile

#9 27-01-2016 
This is the second time you accuse me of not understanding you, @gummilutt. I will allow you to get away with that again for now, but next time I will take that as an insult. It is you who wants to do too much at once, and makes unfounded assumptions about the code. You *asked* for my help, remember? Because there are things that you could not get to work. If you think you can do this on your own now, then please just say so. I will then leave you alone and no longer interfere with your work.

The point is that, whether the action falls out of the queue or not, you cannot simply remove that test. Because they put it there for a reason. Without that test, some sims might get to touch stuff that they have no right touching or that are already in use by others. The fact that gameplay does not cooperate, simply means that there is a complication; a reason why it isn't working YET. It just takes a little time to find out why. If you start to blindly remove or disable stuff, your mod may corrupt someone's game. If you wish to take that risk, please be my guest. But I do not want to be part of that. I do not want to be responsible for another person's years old hood crashing and dying.

If the interaction drops out of the queue at the moment the sim is trying to do it, then maybe you should not be looking at the Guardian, but at the interaction itself. The guardian is only responsible for allowing the option to be available. Making the interaction work is *not* among its responsibilities.

#10 28-01-2016 
No worries, gummilutt. =)

BO, what you were saying about guardians and interactions... (i have absolutely ZERO knowledge of any of the interworkings of the sims, and what you do makes my head explode!) I'm pretty sure my sim should NOT be getting the option with a Neatness at 6.0. So that would mean that the issue i'm having is likely something interfering with the guardian? Or perhaps the issue is with both? He shouldn't get the option, but does... however, it falls out of queue and doesn't work.

It's a VERY minor annoyance. No big deal. I can live with it. just thought if it had a fix, cool. if not? i'll survive. =)


Sorry, that is a members only option